|
|
|||||||
| The Honda CA95 / Benly 150 Restoration The little brother to the CA160 in our family of Hondas |
 |
| Thread Tools |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Replacing clutch advice?
Hi! I'm so happy I found you guys. This seems to be a great resource for us Baby Dreamers.
I am reviving a 1965 that I bought off a Craigslist a few weeks back. It has been in storage for the last 30 years. After new tires, a battery, a carb and petcock rebuild, and the thing motors around pretty good. I guess Honda knew what they were doing! The only issue is that my clutch slips in 3rd and 4th. I ordered the 4 friction plate pack from ebay, and they should be here in about a week. Is replacing the clutch as straight forward as it seems? I haven't replaced the clutch plates on a motorcycle before, so any advice is greatly appreciated. 
|
|
#2
02-26-2010, 11:13 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Replacing the friction discs is as straight forward as it seems. But you will need to do a couple of maintenance steps before replacing the discs.
On the left side of the engine you have a clutch adjustment. It is basically a threaded cam. You will find that the grease inside has gone hard and maybe the reason the clutch is "slipping" because the cam is not retreating back fully when you release the clutch lever. So: 1.) Clean the clutch adjuster threaded cam assembly and relube with fresh grease. Synthetic grease I think is best, and don't grease to excess. 2.) The clutch plates are tarnished with burnt on oil residue. Find a container that will hold the plates deep enough to submerge them. Place them in the container and fill with very hot water. Add 1 pint of chrome cleaner, let sit for about 10 minutes. With gloves, remove the plates and scrub the remaining residue off with steel wool or Brillo pad. Dry with a paper towel. 3.) Flat sand each plate, both sides, with 180 grit sandpaper to renew the surface. 4.) When reassembling the plates and new friction discs, make sure the thick plate goes into the basket 1st. The remaining plates are all the same thickness. 5.) The clutch springs should be OK. 6.) Re-adjust the clutch cam and take up the slack at the clutch handle adjuster. While you have that side of the engine apart, clean the uptake filter on the oil pump. Finally, use a non detergent straight weight motor oil as listed on the engine case. You can use straight weight diesel 30 wt Shell Rotalla(sp) I used that oil without any problems. Never add oil additives that increase lubricity. If you do, your brand new serviced clutch will slip again.
|
|
#7
03-01-2010, 08:38 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I don't think detergent free oil or not matters. These engines aren't super picky like that. I've run regular modern oil in every engine I have come across without any bad side effects. I would really just get some more time on the engine and I wouldn't be surprised if the clutch started working better. Those engines don't wear clutches out and if anything the sludge just needs to be flushed out from in between the plates is all.
There are more adjustments to the clutch mechanism than meets the eye. Here on the forum we have tips on how to adjust the clutch. The clutch might seem to be holding in the lower gears because the engine is allowed more revolutions per wheel revolution. But when the higher gears are engaged the engine encounters more resistance which puts much more stress on the clutch. This is much more likely the result of a clutch that has fallen out of adjustment.  First I highly recommend that you adjust the clutch back and forth to get a feel for adjusting it and to check the operation. If you put in a new clutch and it still doesn't work like new you might get frustrated. =]
|
|
#8
03-01-2010, 08:39 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Here is the thread I have breaking down every single little part. The clutch adjustment drum is the key here... that is once you make sure the clutch cable at the handlebar isn't too tight (in your case of clutch slipping).
http://www.fourwheelforum.com/showthread.php?t=103 Clutch drum thing that adjusts the clutch rod throw with just a tiny twist with a screwdriver. 
|
|
#9
03-01-2010, 09:13 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
The thing to remember about oil is, It's not what it used to be.
In the 60s, motor oil was motor oil. In more recent years, all sorts of additives have been added in the quest for less friction properties. Todays motor oil will not do your clutch any good, you should use a motorcycle specific oil. It don't mater if it is mineral, vegitable, semi synth or fully synthetic as long as it is suitable for a motorcycle with a wet clutch running in said oil. Over the years i have subjected my clutches to far more abuse that you can ever dream of and never had a problem, use the right oil for the job in hand. Sam. 
|
|
#10
03-01-2010, 10:44 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Yeah if you want to get scientific on things. But I just run the crappiest oil I can find and there is no doubt that it is way more advanced than anything that was sold back in the 60's... kinda like tires on motorcycles and cars today are insanely capable and much better than anything dreamed up in the old days.
The only time I'll run motorcycle specific oil is when filling up my Rotax in my Aprilia. Any other bike I have gets Wal-Mart brand (which is made by a large oil mfg. but I'll keep my educated guesses to myself). I'm not saying anyones right or wrong but just posting my experience. If you HAVE put new oil in an older motorcycle and have had problems PLEASE post them. But telling people that they need to buy a certain oil based on what you think and not your experiences is wrong. Advertising info by the oil companies doesn't count as it's all designed to persuade your opinion. Go with what your manual or engine mfg. says and you won't have a problem. They didn't have motorcycle specific blend oil back in the day - and they did have additives in all oils - so any old oil you see on the shelf will work just fine in these old bikes. I have spoken with really high end engine restoration shops and builders on this subject and they all agree with me. The whole oil argument is a joke.
|
|
#11
03-01-2010, 01:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I'm relatively certain the cable is adjusted correctly. There is just a hint of free play in the lever. I've also played with the adjusting drum a little bit, from 12-6 CCW to 9-3, and after adjusting the cable, I still have the same problem. I enlisted the help of a friend who "has more life experience" and is an ol-time biker, and he suspects the friction plates too.
The cable is new, don't know if I mentioned that before. I'll see about running her around and see if it clears up. I got plates on the way either way, and I'm sure the bike won't mind. As far as the oil debate goes, the only bike I have that seems to be semi-particular is my 2 stroke land speed bike, and even that is questionable. My family has put 30k on an old Yahama Seca running Castrol 10-30, and Yamalube into the 2 strokes. If I remember correctly, I was running Motul in my 2 stroke at Bonneville when it seized due to a bad bearing. The rings did not lock up, and there was no evidence of excessive heat, so I can't say the failure was due to heat. But I also don't have a lot of belief in coincidence.
|
|
#12
03-01-2010, 01:52 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
So many variables in all our machines but at least we have the freedom of so many choices.
Sounds like have covered all the bases of clutch operation. Not that you didn't know what was going on ... I just wanted to post all possibilities. Shouldn't clutch plates last 40 years though?  It's amazing how long they last sometimes.
|
|
#13
03-01-2010, 02:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I love the "oil discussion" Sam's and Smithers recommendations are spot on with only a couple of points I need to make.
The main difference between oils of yester year and today is that prior to the catalytic converter and much improved valve trains, the "old oils had an additive called: ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate) This additive acted as an anti scuff agent, because back in the day, our camshafts and rocker assemblies ...how shall I say...rubbed against each other. Your old Honda engine has the same set up. The cam rubs against the rocker that strikes the top of the valve to open it up. Also the old air cooled engines ran hot. Multi visocity oils are formulated with a wax type agent that changes the viscocity with heat and cold. If your old (remember I am pointing out "old air cooled engines" engine gets real hot the viscosity agent breaks down. You can still but single weight engine oil slated for use in a diesel engine. The diesel oil still has the ZDDP additives. Another reason besides better valve trains that ZDDP has been reduced in modern oils is that it clogs the catalytic converters. I ran Shell Rotilla 30wt straight diesel oil in my CA95 after seizing the crankshaft with $10.00 per quart high end synthetic motorcycle oil in the crank. No I don't have proof that it was the oil.... I ran the diesel oil after rebuilding the engine again without issue. I urge anyone reading this thread to go to: http//www.aa1car/library/api_motor_oil_classifications.htm It makes great reading.
|
|
#14
03-02-2010, 12:35 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
You seem to have gone off track a little with your opinion on types of oil when I was merley reffering to a more suitable type of oil for the clutch and not the whole of the motor, also it's difficult to reffer to a manual that was printed in the 50s and the oils that were used then and now. I didn't mention any particular brand of oil in my post and I have no boubt that the cheap oil sold by Wal-Mart is equally as good as anything, if this is the case, why don't you use it in your Rotax motor. Sam. 01-19-2010, 03:38 PM Smithers Administrator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA Posts: 1,766 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Glad to have you contributing Sam. The more help on any of the bikes here the better! Knowledge about these machines is becoming very specialized and that's basically why I started putting my pictures and advice up on the internet in the first place. Feel free to throw out any ideas or corrections you have. I don't claim to know it all and there are people out there that know more because they have the first hand experience with these. --ryan __________________ Comments or suggestions - Check out my profile for contact info. Pictures of your projects are welcome.
|
|
#15
03-02-2010, 07:38 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Yeah boys I read into oil debates (referring to debates on different forums) a little too much sorry big Sam.
And the Wal-Mart oil is fine oil yes but I don't trust it's ability to not break down as fast as the other premium synthetics. V-twin heat loves to break down oil. Not that I would encounter a failure with the lesser brand... superstitious? Also I had a coupon for $20 off at Cycle Gear so I went and bought the most expensive Repsol I could just because I would not usually do that. I think I gained like 7 horsepower.
|
