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| The Honda CA95 / Benly 150 Restoration The little brother to the CA160 in our family of Hondas |
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#1
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I ran into this debacle a while ago...thoughts?
When I was putting my bike back together, I was in the middle of moving and such, so I completely forgot to set my tappets. After starting it and tearing up some back yard turf at my new place, I noticed it was running weak and some oil coming out of the right side cylinder at the exhaust pipe.
I had the uh oh moment then remembered I was rushing to get the motor in for the move, and forgot Mr Tappets. Well I took the front left tappet cover off and the tappet was backed almost all the way out...I sighed relief, a bit too soon I took the other cover off on the front right and the tappet was laying there no nut to be seen. Yeah not good, so I dropped the engine out again and took the breather cover off hoping to spot it in the top end, and not find it A: the bottom end or even worse B: In the cylinder head. Fortunately, with a mirror and a strong flash light I spotted it trying its best to hide. Well long story short everything went back together, I set and tightened every tappet nut as tight as humanly possible out of paranoia of that happening again. I noticed a few days ago after riding it around several more times, a very small oil run on the same side yet again, but this time it is a very small drizzle, not the fountain and only running on one cylinder it did the first time. I am hoping that it's because my smallest feeler gauge was just a tad too large from specs when I set them, as a result I have a little chatter from the top end. I am really hoping its not a bent valve or ruined valve guide from the forgetting to set them during my rebuild because of being in a hurry. Since the gap is so very miniscule anyway, I am thinking of just setting the tappets with no gap what so ever...thoughts? 
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#2
10-29-2011, 03:57 AM
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Thanks for sharing your enthusiastic story, JetBlack. I think we've all missed a step or two in the name of enthusiasm. In July, after I completed a '72 CB175 restoration and took the bike on its maiden voyage, I forgot to turn off the key when I parked it and melted a brand new ignition coil.
Banish the thought of setting the tappets with no gap. I'd recommend setting them at the factory spec. As the valves warm up, they'll expand, and with no gap at all, they'll likely float when the engine warms up, causing compression leaks. Furthermore, as the valves wear, they sit deeper in their seats, reducing the gap further. With no gap, the valves would have reason to float again. To confirm, you mentioned that the oil is coming from where the exhaust pipe connects to the head, and not where the head meets the cylinder? I was wondering whether the o-rings installed where appropriate when the head was remounted. Can we get a picture of the leak? Were you able to check the valve guides for wear prior to reassembly? Glad you found that little lock nut. That could have been a complete tear-down.
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#3
10-30-2011, 02:24 AM
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Hey Lake welcome to the forum,
I didn't use the O rings on the exhaust pipes because the after market studs I got were too short to add them, but its one small run of oil, I suppose the O rings would just deposit it in the exhaust so you can't see it. My 63 didn't have lock nuts for the tappets, but since I am concerned about them backing off like they did, I am going to pick some up before I adjust them later this week sometime...it's getting cold and and it's been raining and my work space is tiny, so i've been getting lazy on it...excuses all of them :P As for the valve guides here's a link to the valve job, port and polish I did, it's kind of hidden and probably should have been a port and polish post on it's own, http://www.fourwheelforum.com/forum/...ead.php?t=1343 at that time everything spec'd as new or better, it almost broke my finger when it blew it out of the spark plug hole when I was checking it for compression, gauge for correct testing is in my future. I hope coming across another ignition coil wasn't as painful as the uh oh moment was when a lapse in concentration is realized with "side effects". I was in Detroit visiting the lil ladies family for Christmas last year, and never was comfortably warm, so I understand and don't envy the cold you're dealing with up there.
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#4
10-30-2011, 03:54 AM
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By 'lock nut' I was just referring to the nut that locks the valve adjuster down. I wasn't suggesting adding any additional non-stock hardware. If the nut is snugged down it shouldn't back off.
I recall that, in addition to the exhaust gaskets that you're referring to, that there are 2 or 3 o-rings that fit on the dowels between the cylinder and the head, but Smithers would be the expert on that subject. If you're seeing oil higher up than that, this probably isn't your issue. Just looking for clues here ... from that cylinder that's producing the oil leak ... is the spark plug getting oily? I'm trying to determine if the oil source is the exhaust valve guide or from the intake side. Regarding the cool temps here in the North, it's only 28 degrees out at the moment ... but up here, we still wear shorts.  When we were kids, my brothers and I would swim in the lake a week after the ice melted, when the water was in the mid 40s. The down side to that is temps over 75 feel 'hot' to me and I find it hard to breathe. Too funny.
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#5
10-30-2011, 06:34 AM
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There is one "o" ring between the cylinder and the head. It seals the passage of the oil back from the head back to the crankcase.
The "o" ring is green and made of a heat & oil resistant material. If the wrong "o" ring material is used you run the risk of failure and leak. Another cause for leaks are using the old knock pins to reassemble the head & cylinders (which the green "o" ring is placed over). I always use new pins. They are available from Honda for low money. My family had property on Drummond Island for years. Living in MN, I can appreciate the cool temps....not
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#6
10-30-2011, 08:38 PM
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Thanks for the reply guys,
Spokes, I recall the O-ring gasket that mates the cylinder head. It was black and not green, it was very thick compared to the old one and fit the knock pin it went around very tightly. So it is the main suspect; the one that came off of it during disassemble was brown. Since it is winter, I've been debating tearing everything down again, going back to bare metal, and powder coating every painted part, and also going through the engine again. The only reason for the quick build was, being very eager get it running and ride it, since I hadn't seen it run since I was 3 years old, and it sat at my parents house beckoning me to do something with it for so many years, but the debate is over she's going to be re-built again. On the bright side, her living and breathing again has been accomplished, the down side was a few shortcuts I took to save time to get there. The bright side to tearing it down and starting over, is This time the driving force will be to be as meticulous as I can with every last minor detail, without the driving force of "make me breathe and ride me" reverberating a constant resounding blow in my ear. This time around, I will document everything now that lady Frankenstein is alive, it's time to make her into a civil and refined lady. Those that like my color schemes and customization don't worry they will still be in final build number two. I'll bring her out of the dungeon for a few pictures tomorrow, so you can get a look at the first rough draft build through. I also bought a new mig welder, and can throw a 300 a month budget at her this time around so who knows what else may be instore? Last edited by Jetblackchemist; 10-30-2011 at 08:40 PM.
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#7
10-31-2011, 12:59 PM
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I decided to learn from this thread and order that little green O-ring now, as I gather all the parts needed for the restoration. I noticed that the gasket set doesn't seem to include this. I wonder why?
Anyway, there are 9 more, and at only $3.99 plus $1.88 for shipping, it's dirt cheap. The part number matches what is listed in the CA95 parts manual. http://www.ebay.com/itm/200433903548...t_12388wt_1037
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#8
10-31-2011, 06:01 PM
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They have the same size, heat and chemical resistant o-rings at Ace they're orange, could easily buy 40 spares there at the E-bay price, They're a great source for metric bolts and nuts as well as chrome ones too. I was eyeing up some of their brass for a petcock at one time, also tubing any length you want priced by the foot, it's about as fun as Harbor Freight.
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#9
10-31-2011, 06:33 PM
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They have the same size, heat and chemical resistant o-rings at Ace they're orange, could easily buy 40 spares there at the E-bay price, They're a great source for metric bolts and nuts as well as chrome ones too. I was eyeing up some of their brass for a petcock at one time, also tubing any length you want priced by the foot, it's about as fun as Harbor Freight.
It sounds like growing up there in oven mitt country, you're pretty well acclimated. I went back to college a couple of years ago for another degree in Alabama. For the nearly four years there, I saw frost on the ground once, and never needed more than a thin sweater, of course in summer a shower seemed like a waste, as soon as you walked outside sweat broke from every pore, and the bathing undone in mere seconds. Well an expensive piece of paper and about 3 years later, I am still not acclimated back to the Eastern Carolina region. Needless to say Detroit felt like a frozen hell. I felt If I had slipped on the 4 to 5 inches of ice in the street I'd have shattered like a pane of glass. I and the lil lady have plans to move somewhere on the border of California and Oregon, in the next few years. We think it is a beautiful part of the country, and are tired of the 2 seasons, oven and freezer. I miss spring and fall, my favorite seasons. We only get 2 good days of either here spring it jumps right back to super cold or right into the 80's with nearly 100 percent humidity quickly climbing to daytime temps in 3 digits. I am a free agent to move whenever since I am semi retired, the lil lady works as a high school teacher, and loves it so she wants the security of having a job out there before the move, which is fine by me.
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#10
11-01-2011, 09:02 AM
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Normally, the oil ring is included in the complete or top end gasket sets.
The oilway that the ring controls is not the drain to the crank case, it is the main oil feed to the cam and rocker gear. To determine where the oil is coming from at the head to pipe joint, remove the pipe and look up into the port. If the whole of the exhaust port has oil residue, then your problem is the inlet guide or a cylinder sealing issue. If the oil seems to be just on the roof of the port, chances are it is coming from the exhaust guide. If it was coming from the former, you would also expect to see smoke from the silencers/mufflers. Sam.
Last edited by Sam Green; 11-01-2011 at 09:04 AM.
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#11
11-01-2011, 07:20 PM
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There was one in the gasket set I got but it was the standard black type. When I tear her all down again for rebuild two this winter I will certainly be looking at those guides Sam, I hope all went well on the racing circuit for you, your son sent me the badge I was missing, I was going to send him a petcock in thanks, but then the same day, I read he was fed up on the stock pet...so I'm still thinking on what he might could put to use.
I know there has to be some damage from all the extra play the valves got when the set screws came loose. On that note...has anyone here installed new guides on one of these? I am hoping to avoid any mishaps in the process so any tips on getting them in and out the right way the first time would be appreciated. Thanks everyone, I haven't posted updated bike pics because I've been under the weather for the last 2 days...so soon hopefully.
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#12
11-02-2011, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Regarding the oil seepage, I would look up the exhaust port sooner rather than later, you'll get a better idea while it's fresh. I doubt the loose tappets would have caused any wear to the guides, pehaps they wern't as good as you thought when you checked them. New guides don't come ready to go, they have to be fitted then reamed out to size, a job for a good machine shop. If you decide to do it your self, don't try knocking them out. The head has to be heated until they fall out otherwise, you may pull aluminum out of the head and then the new ones will be loose and no good. On the racing front, I'll be racing over in the States at Valdosta on 10th 11th 12th November, look me up if you get the chance. Sam.
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#13
11-02-2011, 06:55 PM
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Sam my apologies, I could have sworn Roger Green, member Kartgreen on here was your son. Sorry for the mix up, Sam. What are you planning on racing out there? Lemme know when you have some races planned in SC or a bit closer to Columbia. Unfortunately, that race is a little too close to thanksgiving for the distance
 We need an few Autobahn type roads over here in the states  , I think it would work if you had to have a accident free driving record check or similar to even get on it.I'm in the bad body aches part of being sick, but as soon as this huge kink gets out of my neck and back...I'll pull the header pipe and take a better look, and report my findings. I'm planning on bringing it into our sun room to do all the work over the winter. These Honda's really are a pleasure to work on.
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#15
11-03-2011, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
I raced in SC earlier this year, not sure when I might be back. I race a 76 Honda CB750A in Street and Pro ET drag races. Some pics on this page. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=61876.825 Sam.
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