CA160 by Brewster

[Brewster]

Hi,
New here, I have looked at this site for info from time to time. Spokes has sold me some parts and I have sold him some on ebay. Not real up to date on what all I can do here. I have a 1966 CA 160 project, when I am not working on it I will post a picture or two. My bike has body number 1000249 engine number 1000311, my guess is the bike was built in the first day or first week of CA160 production. For whatever thats worth.
I have been on ebay forever (02-01) its kind of a hobby. I used to make some nice money there, thats all gone away. Ebay fees thru the roof, Paypal bend over. Still a great place to get parts quickly for my motorcycle hobby.

[Brewster]

Here is a shot of the body, as soon as the engine is clean I will start on the body. Its still cold here in Michigan so I have a few days to get my paint work ready. My plan is to have all parts ready for primer by the end of March for paint sometime in May.
The bike had a 1981 plate from Kansas. When doing the tear down I couldnt find any issue other than a bare wire to the coil. ? My question is that what took the bike off the street? Easy fix if so. The engine looks nice inside, I dont plan to split the case for inspection and repairs. I will pull the head and jug to lap the valves, check the rings, and blast the outside of each.

[Smithers]

Ahh that damn Ebay/ Paypal and their fees! Hopefully the clutch cable mechanism where the little drum rotates and pushed the clutch basket rod is in good shape. Once those get worn or damaged these bikes would just be parked as people generally wouldn't pay to have a shop fix them. At least the handlebars aren't bent and you have the levers and perches in good shape. These parts seem to be the hard ones to find good original replacements for.

[Brewster]

Yes the handle bars are nice, they need rechromed but thats it. It really is a nice project bike, most of the hard to find stuff was on the bike when I got it. I was just inspecting the clutch push rod a short time ago. I was cleaning the chain case and put some oil on the push rod, it seems to work properly. I had planned to pull the clutch basket apart to check the plates. Maybe pull the oil pump for inspection also. The engine looks great inside but I have found its good to check things over after years of sitting.

[Smithers]

Yeah you might as well give it a good check inside and out. Better safe than sorry. Me and a friend split the cases on his old Ducati 250 Mach 1 and found a mouse house inside the thing! No kidding!

[Spokes]

I always split the case and clean everything. Soak the crank in mineral spirits to clean it as well. I listen for bearing noise when the crankshaft is clean. It's a heart breaker to seize a rebuilt engine because the crank bearings were bad. It is also a good time to replace engine oil seals. I remove them one by one and record the sizes. You can still buy them from Honda or on ebay. When you take apart the clutch, clean the plates with a solution of chrome wheel cleaner. Soak them in a container deep enough to submerge the plates. Fill with warm or hot water and add about a 1/2 pint of chrome cleaner. This solution will remove the burnt on oil film on the plates. Rinse them off and dry them, then flat sand each side with 180 grit sandpaper before reassembly. Don't forget to replace the plates in order. One plate is thicker than the rest and goes first into the basket. It's always nice to put in new clutch friction plates if you can. When cleaning the engine of old oil and grease, invest in a box or 2 of nitrile disposable gloves. Old oil stains skin real well.

[Brewster]

If I split the case what is the best sealant when putting back together? I was planning on using some gray silicone but you guys may know of something better.
Sorry about posting my CA160 here, I will get some pictures of my 150 posted, to follow the threads properly.
I have a sweet red 1964? CA95. I will have it running shortly then use it to train the wife to ride. It is real nice, shiny original paint,great chrome,new tires, and almost complete.

[Spokes]

I'm having a senior moment trying to remember what I used on the last engine I rebuilt. All I remember is that it was a Permetex product and it was red. It came in a small tube and you put a thin coating on one surface. When I broke apart my current CA95 engine project the factory had just a thin coat of sealant on the case surfaces. Just make sure the mating surfaces are pristine.

[Brewster]

My 30 years in the auto parts work tells me that you are talking about anerobic (spl?) sealer. Its real thin and is like silicone but doesnt need air to cure. Sticks real well, you dont need much and so it comes in a small tube.
Am I on the right track?

[Smithers]

I wouldn't be scared to use almost any gasket sealer out there. It's a real low power and heat engine in my experience. Just make sure you have a new gasket kit and go for it. I use that Gaska-Cinch stuff that comes in a little steel can like plumbing glue comes in. I have also used Permatex Black and have never had a problem with either. There is also The Right Stuff I know will work but it's expensive. Toyota also has this stuff called FIPK (gasket maker) that works insanely well. It's $10 a tube and I love that stuff. You can tell how well it fills voids and sticks to stuff when you get it on your hands. It's twice as sticky as RTV /Parmatex Black when I get it on my hands and tools.

Here you can just barely see the can of Gaska-Cinch on my bench. I used it for every single gasket... not because I had to. Just some extra insurance. Plus the label has an illustration of a hot pin-up gal on it!
http://www.fourwheelperformance.com/honda/ca95_t30.jpg

[Spokes]

The anaerobic Permatex sealer sounds correct. Smithers advice is accurate as well. But what ever you use, a nice thin layer is all you need. The Toyota sealant sounds interesting.....The sealant added to the gaskets may not be a bad idea, I use it on gaskets that may be thin and on a surface that my not be perfect. I do use the thick gasket on the right case side without additional sealant. That's the one part that may need to be removed again within the ownership of the bike...like replacing clutch friction disks, replacing sloppy shift arms and so on.

I don't know if I would use sealant with a fancy girly girl pin-up on the can...you might not stay focused......LOL

[Smithers]

Yeah you just want enough to put a thin coat or sealer around any gasket. The gasket will force the compound into any tiny pinholes or voids. You can run into trouble using too much... trouble like a gasket slipping out of place or some excess sealer goop getting in the way on the inside of the engine. Generally not a problem but you want to let the gasket to it's job. The sealer is there just for extra insurance and also helps to hold gaskets in place while assembling. Some people use sealer ONLY and this might work but it's not good practice. They do this ALL THE TIME in auto repair shops and it drives me nuts but mechanics think that it's "OK". Yeah well it's not ok when they usually are charging you premium price which should include normal replacement parts such as GASKETS.

And to correct myself the Toyota sealer is called FIPG (form in place gasket it might mean) and this stuff is awesome. Any dealer will have it there and its cheap. It's standard sealer on Toyota/ Lexus engines that all their dealerships are mandated to use on all vehicles. I actually removed the water bridges on my Lexus V8 and I had already sealed it with FIPG only as instructed by Lexus service books. Well I had to disassemble the engine completely and put ARP race studs in real quick to hold the heads down more than the stock head bolts would (installed metal racing gaskets : ). Anyhow I actually removed the bridge and I didn't even re-coat them with the FIPG because when I took it apart it didn't even break the gasket that it formed when I pulled it apart. I re-assembled and I haven't had a problem at all since. I love this stuff. I found a picture I had taken of it. And now you guys have the part number as well just in case the dealership trainee behind the service counter is clueless. :)

Toyota/Lexus FIPG
http://fourwheelperformance.com/phorum/p_07.jpg

And going back to my younger days we re-assembled dirt bike engines in a hurry without sealer and they always held! We just over analyze things as we grow older. :D

[Brewster]

I have a few rules with gaskets. #1 is CLEAN !! Gaskets will leak if you dont clean first. Use a dressing of some kind, the use of the gasket determin what you put on the gasket, but like you say the dressing is to help hold not take the place of the gasket. Not all gaskets will need a dressing. I look at the gaskets that Honda put in these engines 40 plus years ago. How much have they leaked in all those years? Most often if you find a leak its a replacement gasket. The real bad leaks WILL BE silicone.Its a waste of time and effort to use silicone as a FAST SEAL gasket replacement. I dont know where that misconseption ever got started. Silicone has a place but I feel its best if you have 24 hours to let it dry completely. All gaskets have a life time, some MUST be replaced every year. If you drive your vintage car every day your gaskets should be replaced each year to keep it leak free. Newer than 1985- 1990 gaskets and machined faces are much improved. Honda set a standard that the world had to follow.