Honda CA95 Benly Production Numbers

[ByTheLake]

After exchanging emails with noted early Honda experts such as Bill Silver and Ray Davis (both of whom directed me to the other :) ), I found some interesting data. It was suggested that I review the parts manuals for clues, which I did in great depth. Finding nothing, I dug deeper, reviewing CA95 parts microfiche, when I found a frame and engine index. The numbers seemed to be good, although I found no data for the '59 or '66 model years. Could the '59, being in very low numbers, have had a special set of numbers? Perhaps this fiche was published before the '66 model year? Not sure, but I'm interested in your thoughts.

I searched for the frame and engine numbers that others have posted online, and they seem to fit these ranges. Regardless, I consider this to be a 'draft' copy, subject to change.

My own '65 CA95, CA95-5016546, fits. This would suggest that my CA95 is number 16,546 of 19,831 built that year.

http://www.forths.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Honda_CA95_production.jpg

* I noticed that the 1965 engine and frame number ranges are similar, but I double-checked the microfiche and confirmed what was listed.

So, having some fun with the numbers...

1) The "early" CA95, sold '59 into mid-'63, is much less common than the "late" CA95.

2) Since the "late" CA95 started with frame number CA95-3106641 in 1963, that splits the 1963 production into 6640 "early" models and 5960 "late" models.

3) The 1964 and 1965 models are the most common, while 1960 and 1961 should be the "rarest" (aside from the few '59s that were sold by Honda's 15 dealers by the end of that year)

[comp_wiz101]

Cool, mine is a late '62 build then. Thanks!

[Puzzleparadise]

I recently purchased a '66 CA 150 and then stumbled upon this wonderful forum, it's a great resource...special thanks to everyone involved! ;)

My Benly is registered as a '66 however the serial #CA95-5016332 seems to be for a '65...?

Seems strange how it was registered as a '66 but obviously using a '65 frame number...strange?

This was originally imported from Florida..

Engine #CA95E-6016590
Frame #CA95-5016332

Sorry to dredge up an older post...hope that's okay ;)

[DanUhr]

Does anyone have production figures for the C92 or CA92?

[ByTheLake]

Does anyone have production figures for the C92 or CA92?This is all I can assemble on the C92. The data is from several sources including old dealer fiche cards. In those days, Honda didn't consistently follow model year boundaries, making product changes as needed. Also, the dealers tended to title the bikes based on when they were sold, not necessarily when they were manufactured, so it clouds the picture a bit. It seems that the C92 is much more plentiful than the CA92, since I could only find a reference for the CA92 being manufactured for one year, sold mainly in 1959, and sharing the engine and frame range with the C92, with the exception that the serials started with 'CA'. If anybody else has additional information, please feel free to share.

http://www.forths.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/C92Index.jpg

[Jetblackchemist]

Your post if accurate; it just turned my 63' into a 64' close to the beginning of the 64' production run though. The other vintage info provided on this site, and else where including the Honda vintage section placed it as a 63'...

Is there just one document; stating the numbers you provided?
It sounds like you put a lot of work into your research; however if 3 documents put it as a 63' run; and 1 document as a 64', I'm going to go by a 63'.

If the 4 starting the Vintage stands for the 4 in 1964; then I completely agree. My motor number is less than 15 numbers off the frame. Which; makes me wonder how rare a bike with matching numbers, would be.

[Jetblackchemist]

The run of motors, is only 154 more than it was for the frame; which if we assume that's how many were defective...it makes the Benly a very quality built machine. Over 63,000 produced with only 154 defective says a lot.

The 1959 and the 1966 run numbers could come close to being extrapolated, from the given information if; we had a total run on all of the machines built, without too much difficulty.

[Spokes]

Puzzle:

Your frame number say's it is a 1965. Your engine says it's a 1966. Why is it a 66? Perhaps it was titled by the engine number at some point.

It is likely that it is not the original engine. one cannot tell the difference between a 65 & 66 CA95. It seems that there are some 66 CA95's even though they were upgraded to the CA160 model in 1966.

The frame and engine numbers usually don't match. But the 1st number of the engine & frame should.

[Puzzleparadise]

Yeah, I was wondering that as well...perhaps someone from Florida could shed some light on their DMV procedures as I'm pretty sure it would have been registered there at some point? :)

[Jetblackchemist]

I feel the same as Spokes; at some point in the life of your 160, the motor was swapped...

Spokes how far off in numbers are your frame and motor; from your scratch built?

For fun I think it would be an interesting project to see if any members have, a matching motor for another member's frame. It would be kinda neat if say My frame matched; Smithers motor...or Spokes motor matched Bythelakes frame.

Even though, the odds that any bikes left the assembly line; with matching numbers is way out there in probability...It would be cool to find out where it's "number buddy" ended up.

[Puzzleparadise]

I feel the same as Spokes; at some point in the life of your 160, the motor was swapped...

Spokes how far off in numbers are your frame and motor; from your scratch built?

For fun I think it would be an interesting project to see if any members have, a matching motor for another member's frame. It would be kinda neat if say My frame matched; Smithers motor...or Spokes motor matched Bythelakes frame.

Even though, the odds that any bikes left the assembly line; with matching numbers is way out there in probability...It would be cool to find out where it's "number buddy" ended up.

That would be very cool! :D :cool:

[Spokes]

Here is how cool and weird the numbers get.

The barn find Honda that I built several years ago came from Ohio. The next year a friend from Minnesota sends me the frame that begun the Build from Scratch. The frame number numbers were 21 builds apart. Wild. Both bikes were white.

The Build From Scratch frame is the 193rd. 1965, CA95, built. Now the engine is probably the latest engine built the same year...but it is not, as it is a combination of used parts from a 1962, 1964 & 1965 motors. So the build from scratch engine number is 11,900+ different from the frame number.

To add to weirdness...the last 3 digits of my CA95 first build(2007) and the last 3digits of the engine assembled for the BFC (2012)....are the same.....

So if you really wanted a 65 CA95 engine on a 65 CA95 frame...just swap out the 1966 top engine case with 1965 top engine case....

[Puzzleparadise]

To add to weirdness...the last 3 digits of my CA95 first build(2007) and the last 3digits of the engine assembled for the BFC (2012)....are the same.....




Wow....what a coincidence! :D

[Jetblackchemist]

To add to weirdness...the last 3 digits of my CA95 first build(2007) and the last 3digits of the engine assembled for the BFC (2012)....are the same...

Was your first build frame the same year, as your BFC built motor; Or different years but the same digits?

Pretty cool either way...:D

I rechecked my numbers for frame and engine; they are the exact same number, except for the E on the motor; and the last two digits...Motor ends 74 frame ends 61 they are only 13 apart from each other.

A little added fun: Benly translates roughly as "Convenience" in Japanese.

[Spokes]

same years....

[Missourimike]

It may have been mentioned before, elsewhere, on why VIN numbers and years on titles don't match production numbers. Back in the Day, it would often take TWO years from the time the VIN was produced in either Japan or Europe/UK, to ship, warehouse, deliver to dealer and eventually be sold. Quite often leftover bikes from previous years were sold with titles to the year sold. My Norton was assembled in '71, titled in '73.
Now, as for my CA95 titled as '62, I have the maintenance records going WAY back into the 60s, receipts from the dealer,etc. But the motor has NO numbers stamped in the crosshatched spot where VIN numbers should be located. And, I can find NO numbers anywhere on the frame! Any secret, hidden spots to find any numbers on the frame? No record of the motor having ever been changed out, and if a replacement was made, I'd expect to find motor number still.

[Jetblackchemist]

Wow, Spokes maybe you should go get some lottery titckets:p I think the odds of seeing the same numbers on a frame for these bikes are astounding.

M.Mike....Remove the left side cover, the frame number should below and to the right of the side cover, on the bottom edge lip; before the body starts to turn into the curve for the rear fender. Beware some of the numbers are poorly stamped, and if it has been painted over; even harder to see.

If you don't have a title; you'll have to remove that section of paint, to find it or fill out DMV forms to issue it a new number to be placed on it...make sure you have all the paper work. DMV's vary from state to state in requirements and disposition.

[grubsie]

Its amazing how you guys find this kind of information. I wouldn't even know where to start looking for this but here on this forum. That being said, does anyone have this kind of info for the CA160's?

[ByTheLake]

We could have just made up those numbers, too ... who would know? And if anybody argued the accuracy, that would mean that they had the real numbers. It's a win-win situation.

[grubsie]

Just asking because I found a guy that 3 of them that are in pretty rough shape. They are actually missing quite a few parts but I can probably get 2 working out of them with a lot of work and some parts. He doesn't know the years of them. Just wondering how to tell what year they are by the frame numbers.

[Larzfromarz]

Great thread (and revival) BTL.
Ok... you made me go and look. One of my current projects is a CA160 to CB92 tribute bike called "QwaziMoto" and has a clear 1st year number 1014260/E1014299. Ok fine this about CA95s and I had one, CA95, on deck for the next project "Tangerine Dream".
Until I saw this thread.
Oh, I'll let the guys know about these numbers.... go and look...the bike turns out to be another CA160 that the guy I bought from thought was a CA95 and took his word on it, still no problem. I was looking forward to this build as my first CA95 and am just finishing the 150 engine (E5010089) built to go in this bike. Upon inspection I found the frame to be CA160-1001653.
So no Ca95 for me ( I do have another frame 5005963 but it's basically yard art and the engine is supposed to go to Spokes' latest (for you Chip E5005801)).
I guess I have to decide now whether to build the bike as a 160 w/150 engine (who would really care) or which direction to take (I'm running out of 160 engines until Steverinomiester unloads his new collection on me???).
Now I have to think and that hurts sometimes....
Opinions or thoughts are welcome.
L

[Spokes]

Thanks Larz..I'm really looking forward to meet somewhere to pick up the CA95 engine. The one thing I can say for sure is that the 64-65 CA95 & the 66-69 CA160's are exactly the same..except for the engine, gas tank panels, wiring harness and the chain guard. The only difference between the chain guards is at the engine. So only a few people will know that the "160" frame has a "150 engine....

I say go for it.

[Larzfromarz]

And I am pretty sure the brake pedal too...
Just waiting to hear if things are settling down for you Chip (wrt xfer).

I knew there wouldn't be much too worry about regarding the engine stuff... and I'll have to wait until Sam chimes in but last night I thought about using the new 150 engine on the CB92 tribute bike to be more "authentic". However a screaming demon in my head still wants to pump up a 160 and use it in the 'tribute' racing bike.
On the other hand the tank is coming along... I'll see if I can't make mess out of welding it up this weekend.

[Spokes]

We're on the same page...almost. Here is a shot of my salvation bike mock up with the solo seat and custom tank. The tank will have original mounts and an updated petcock. The center will house the electrical needs like the big bikes. The tank is from a Kawasaki 100 Dirt Bike, cut in half.
http://www.fourwheelforum.com/picture.php?albumid=90&pictureid=1062

[Larzfromarz]

Should be interesting to see the interpretations when done. I just could not go with a solo seat in that spot so I'll have a bum stopper cafe/cb92 seat pan that is the next fabrication project. Actually two projects, because I want to use the rear fender "ducktail" to make the bum stop and house the tail light in that as a possible option. Additionally all of the electrical bits will be placed in the frame where the air filter goes (once I commit to engine choice). Still planning on the CB160 or 175 head, so dual carbs would be the order of the day. I'll use a curved intake tube for each to clear the frame. Gets closer almost everyday.

So is the xfer on or no?

[Spokes]

Yea, the final products will be cool. I will know more about possible transfers in October.