CA95 Battery Help

Hotdoggin' · #1 05-31-2009, 08:36 AM

Ok, i'm totally lost. this is my first bike and i'm not sure but the battery in the bike does not seem to be the correct one and it looks to be a bit rigged...
There should be a picture here of what it looks like.

I bought a new one at RustyRiders:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-B...ht_1063wt_1196

so yeah, i have no idea what i need to do to hook this up..
would appreciate any help.
thx

Hotdoggin' · #2 05-31-2009, 11:54 AM

Oops forgot to mention that this is a 1963 Honda Benly CA95, 150cc.
The pos/neg wires seem to be permanently attached to the battery as you can see, and the black ground wire over to the left with the loop on the end isn't attached at all...

Smithers · #3 06-01-2009, 12:48 AM

So the black battery is the one that is in there and you have the clear yellow top battery to replace this with? The black battery is a Sealed Lead Acid type (SLA) that is for common uses and not automotive specific. These are used in all sorts of applications like lighting systems and gate openers with solar panels attached to them at the end of long driveways, power back up systems... etc etc. The voltage is correct but the amps (known as cold cranking amps in automotive terminology) which is the actual power discharged from the battery is the only thing that might separate this battery from a traditional motorcycle battery. The connectors are just blade type which have a small contact area that is easily corroded because it's not being used indoors in a nice environment like where most SLA batteries end up. So with the cheap blade connectors having such a small contact area that setup won't stand the test of time nearly as well as a regular nut and bolt battery connector.

But the SLA batteries are very attractive and price and they can work as long as they provide enough amperage. I can't tell from the picture. On the other hand you wouln't use a traditional auto or motorcycle battery inside a house like you would the SLA. They leak a little and are high amperage which means they unload lots of energy quickly, need higher quality connectors and can spark and heat up if used for more than a short period of time. SLA slowly release energy, less heat and less of a chance for sparks and such.

Ok just some basic Honda electronic facts and suggestions - I'm just going to go through this to hopefully make it simple for anyone to understand. I'm not trying to insult anyones intelligence - just going to give some advise so most everyone reading can benefit I hope. :-I

The connectors in the picture were put on the smaller wires which were then adapter to the butt connectors so they would attach to the large wires. This is just not optimal as there should be large wires to the larger eye shaped connectors that should be bolted to the larger battery terminals of an automotive/motorcycle type battery. This way the larger wires can carry the larger burst of energy (from the traditional moto battery) required to turn the starter. The connections from the old Honda taped wire to the newer red wire causes resistance... as well as the butt connector and then the connection to the blade type connector. All these connection inhibit the flow of current from the already low amperage battery. Amperage is current of course.

Anyhow, the blade connectors pull right off the little tabs that are on the top of the battery. Just grab the wires and yank them off while wiggling them left and right. Then you want to get a BLACK wire for the ground on the right of the battery. Honda and many other cars and old bikes use a large naked braided steel cable to connect the battery to the frame. This is because the whole frame is the ground so it doesn't matter if the negative cable is protected or not. It just has to be larger than what you have in the picture and the bolt that secures it to the frame should be clean and also the part that the cable connector touches on the frame should be free of paint and dirt of course.

I will work on reposting my pictures of one of my battery connections soon. I have pictures of exactly what it should look like.

Smithers · #4 06-01-2009, 01:13 AM

Honda and most old bikes also used a cylindrical glass fuse that was held in a small round black tube. This would go on the positive battery wire and be placed in the clip that use see on the left side of the battery holder. These can break and finding those types of fuses takes a little more effort. Someone probably used a common blade type of fuse because its easier to find and might look better to some. I think thats a 25 amp fuse judging from the picture which is way too high. This won't protect the curcuit well because there are electrical components that can be damaged with less current than that. The correct fuse is 5 or 6 amps which is very low. Then why do I make a big deal of using larger battery wires and ground cable? Well the amps is so low but the connectors in the picture and the smaller wire just diminishes the energy which is already low to begin with.

Also pull that black cable with the eye connector on it on the left side of the picture. See if it just falls out or if it's connected to anything. That looks more like the positive cable that should be attached to the battery.

The black SLA battery might work but because it's possibly designed for low amp output that means it will only accept a low amp charge which means the battery won't charge up nearly as fast as a standard moto/auto battery. So when you fire up the bike and discharge the battery doing so... that when you ride to the store or gas station and shut it off - the SLA battery might not have accepted the charge that it was provided from the engine charging circuit. But a standard battery gives off power quickly to start the engine and then accepts a charge quickly so that it stays charged.

I just buy the regular batteries and use the regular cables or make new ones based on what Honda originally designed. Even the cheap Chinese scooters don't use blade type connectors and small gauge wire like that for the batteries. And those are the cheapest machines out there on the roads. You can use that fuse holder with a lower amp rated fuse without a problem. But we'll show you how to get some regular terminals on there so that you can use a proper regular battery.

Hotdoggin' · #5 06-01-2009, 02:22 PM

Wow that is excellent info! Thanks for setting aside the time for that. Wiring is just completely foreign to me.... And yes a pic of your setup would be great...
Still waiting for the manual to arrive in the mail...

I do understand what your saying about having larger cables...that makes total sense. Do you know what gage i should get or even BETTER, is there a place i could buy the whole wire "set up" so i can just remove that mess that is there instead of picking it to pieces and clamping together wires? Or better, what do you think is best i buy to get this wired correctly? I don't care how much that part is original, i'm mostly concerned on the quality of function without spending too much money...

I did not yet tug on the black cable with eye ring to the left of pic that is just hanging out but i'm pretty sure it is attached to something up in the frame.

I'm trying to attach another pic i took after i removed the black battery but it's not letting me attach for some reason. I'll try and create a new reply post and see if it'll let me attach.

thanks so much

Hotdoggin' · #6 06-01-2009, 08:28 PM

Ok, tugged on the black wire w/ eye ring thingy and it is most def attached to something...

Here's the new pic i took with the old black battery removed:

And here is the new one that is sitting in my apt. full of acid:

j

Hotdoggin' · #7 06-08-2009, 01:47 PM

Hey Smithers,
you mind posting a pic of your battery wiring so i can try and duplicate. Received my repair manual but that pic is super bad quality and small compared to everything else in the book. thanks in advance...

Smithers · #8 06-09-2009, 07:00 AM

The bike is not in my garage at the moment. I'll remember to take my camera the next time I go visit it. I thought I had pictures of the battery compartment after I redid it.. but I can't find them. Hang in there, I won't forget.

Hotdoggin' · #9 06-09-2009, 12:19 PM

thanks!
this is the only thing standing in between me and the road...

Smithers · #10 06-10-2009, 06:52 PM

Alrighty I made it a point to get a few pictures to get you going. Have a look at the shiny blue CA95. Everything is factory except the crazy ground strap I used. I got this ground wire from Carquest. They just have a bunch of ground straps in different sizes and this is the one I pulled from the shelf. I can't find the part # but if you print out these pictures and take them in they should easily be able to find the exact same one for you. They aren't application specific. They just come in different lengths.

I was extremely lucky to get a brand new Yuasa battery too. I went into my battery outlet and had them search their whole inventory in the US to see if they could find one... and they did!

Smithers · #11 06-10-2009, 06:53 PM

Make sure and put a piece of flat rubber or something underneath the battery and against the frame. It's just good practice so that the battery doesn't rub through the paint so much.

Smithers · #12 06-10-2009, 06:55 PM

Here is my Honda CA160 which is completely stock and not painted or anything. It's the exact same configuration. You can get the glass fuse holders from an auto parts store still I think. They are all over Ebay for pennies as well if you want to keep it original looking.

Smithers · #13 06-10-2009, 06:57 PM

You can really see how thick the factory Honda ground wire is. When you replace it or condition the old one make sure to make sure it is connecting to the mounting point that has been cleaned of any build up or crud. If the ground wire is in bad shape then it effects everything. I'm not sure how dirty the stock ground wire can get before the current suffers. As long as the connecting points to the frame and battery are clean it's ok.

Hotdoggin' · #14 06-11-2009, 08:47 PM

Awesome Smithers, thanks so much man!
So i'll just replace the ground wire with something thicker ground wire that has eye hole ends and make sure all connections are clean...

As for the positive side, i'll keep that fuse in line but move from a 25 that's in there now, to a 5 that you recommended.
i'll replace the slip on end with an eye hole and attach to the positive side of the battery along with the black wire that's just hanging out of the frame...
thanks so much for taking all of those pictures... you rule
Jeramy

Smithers · #15 06-11-2009, 09:43 PM

Hey J no sweat man.

You could also just grab a 10A fuse as well. If it's gonna go it's gonna go either fuse. If it does blow it's always a short so it won't matter if it's a 2-10 or 15 even. The only time I've ever had a fuse blow was because of a wire in the headlight assembly. The bullet style connectors have a clear rubber surround on them to insulate them and one of them wiggled away and exposed a wire which grounded and caused the short.

Anyhow the huge ground straps are overkill. You could just use a 10 or 12 gauge wire and that would be plenty thick. I just like the way the new ground strap looked, it came with the ends already on it and it was cheap. You should get a assortment of butt connectors and wire ends from Harbor Freight or somewhere. It's always nice to have them on hand and the heat shrink tubing makes things look super nice. Heat shrink is cheap and a heat gun from Harbor Freight is $10! I use mine all the time.

Anyhow have fun and let us know how it goes chief.