1971 Honda CL70 please help me get it running

[jfp350]

Hello my name is John, I have had the hardest time finding people with knowledge and experience with CL70s and was happy to find your forum.

I purchased a 1971 Honda CL70 in sapphire blue last year for $200 off craigslist and I hope you can help me to get it running and riding. It currently has no spark.

previous owner claimed to have it running but then connected a 12volt (suppose to be 6v) battery to it and it would not run after that. I am trying to figure out what damage he caused by doing that. I have purchased another wiring harness, stator, and rectifier but are all used parts off a non running bike. My weak point is electrical and I have no idea how to test any of the components on the bike or the ones I bought. The harness on it now is pretty hacked up as you can tell in the photo. I have no clue where to start.

motor turns and has good compression, so I think if I can get it sparking I will have a good chance of running it.

If you could guide me along and help me get this running this summer I will be very happy and thankful. please help.
here is the bike when I got it.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3307/img0153r.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5313/img0149e.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8730/img0146atb.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7328/img0147q.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5971/img0150p.jpg

here is it after some cleaning up, and a better tank, since the picture the fork ears have been changed to chrome. I also rewired the handlebar and changed the speedometer.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8641/1000277x.jpg

[hahnda]

Have you checked the points? Any spark at the points?

[jfp350]

I replaced the points, dont know that I have them adjusted right but figured I would see some sort of spark anyhow.

[hahnda]

Well if they never open you wont get a spark. I would check to see if they are opening when you turn the engine over.

Any lights coming on when you turn the key on?

[jfp350]

I found a guide to use to set them and going to make sure its right.

lights do not turn on, I think the guy blew them all out when he connected the 12 volt.

[hahnda]

Fuse?

Are you sure the ignition is on?

I assume you have a wiring diagram to follow?

[jfp350]

Fuse?

Are you sure the ignition is on?

I assume you have a wiring diagram to follow?

guy had no fuse in line when he plugged in the 12v, positive the ignition is on.

I have a wiring diagram from this site

[hahnda]

Do you have a test light or meter? Just trying to figure out a way for you to make sure there is power at the points.

[jfp350]

Do you have a test light or meter? Just trying to figure out a way for you to make sure there is power at the points.

I know I have a meter

[Smithers]

Just hooking up a 12V and trying to run it ain't gonna just magically blow things out... well might blow out that little fuse on the wire going to the battery. :) That's what that fuse is there for! I hope yours wasn't bypassed for some reason. Some fools just go and buy the biggest fuse they can get their hands on and slap it in there to try and make it run. Might as well just hardwire right by it if your gonna do that.... dummies.

Just don't even plug in any of the wires going to the handlbars. Lights, horn, dimmer, neutral light, all that junk isn't needed to just fire the engine. All those circuit just add more possibility for shorting from exposed wires. Just make sure to plug in the ignition switch, the coil and rectifier and get it going. A LOT of old Hondas have bare wires near the steering head that keep them from running. Also right where the wires go into the headlight assembly there is very high chance of shorting. They have to been in pretty good shape.

Also the 6V battery has to be charged up and in good condition for the bike to get enough spark to start up. Then the charging system takes over but the battery is SO small that it will discharge quickly while you are trying and trying to kick the bike over to get it going. Make sure you have one of those Battery Tender things on it all the time until you have a smooth running CL70.

How many miles are on it? That bike looks to be in great shape! I bet the engine runs like new... when you get it running that is. I don't think it should be that hard for you. You'll get it going I know. Don't toss that old tank unless finding a new one isn't that hard... I know my 69 would be near impossible to find another one. I would have fixed the one you took off. :)

Keep at it. These are probably the best pit and race track bikes ever. I took mine to Laguna Seca the other year and it was awesome to use to cruise around back and forth around the whole area. Anything larger than one of these is miserable to maneuver around the tight areas and anything smaller is a kiddy bike.

And I don't see ANY corrosion on your bike! You got a good one for sure.

[Smithers]

I got new fork seals for mine too. These things would benefit greatly from new oil and seals. I can't wait to do mine and put up some pictures and stuff about it.

[jfp350]

Thanks for getting back to me!! :)

Just hooking up a 12V and trying to run it ain't gonna just magically blow things out... well might blow out that little fuse on the wire going to the battery. :) That's what that fuse is there for! I hope yours wasn't bypassed for some reason. Some fools just go and buy the biggest fuse they can get their hands on and slap it in there to try and make it run. Might as well just hardwire right by it if your gonna do that.... dummies.

unfortunately I am almost positive he had no fuse in line when he hooked up the 12 volt. He hardwired the battery right in and the fuse was bypassed.

Just don't even plug in any of the wires going to the handlbars. Lights, horn, dimmer, neutral light, all that junk isn't needed to just fire the engine. All those circuit just add more possibility for shorting from exposed wires. Just make sure to plug in the ignition switch, the coil and rectifier and get it going. A LOT of old Hondas have bare wires near the steering head that keep them from running. Also right where the wires go into the headlight assembly there is very high chance of shorting. They have to been in pretty good shape.

That is a good Idea, I should probably tape all the wire ends off to make sure they don't touch anything also. perhaps I can take the harness out and inspect it for bare wires.

Also the 6V battery has to be charged up and in good condition for the bike to get enough spark to start up. Then the charging system takes over but the battery is SO small that it will discharge quickly while you are trying and trying to kick the bike over to get it going. Make sure you have one of those Battery Tender things on it all the time until you have a smooth running CL70.

I have always been told a battery has no affect on these bikes running besides lighting and as long as it is hooked up or bypassed It will start.I thought all the power need to spark was generated by the stator. I will still replace the battery to rule this out.

How many miles are on it? That bike looks to be in great shape! I bet the engine runs like new... when you get it running that is. I don't think it should be that hard for you. You'll get it going I know. Don't toss that old tank unless finding a new one isn't that hard... I know my 69 would be near impossible to find another one. I would have fixed the one you took off. :)

Hard to tell the miles when I got it the speedometer was cracked and the inside rusted locking the numbers in place, appears to be around 2000-3000 miles. I sold the old tank the new one is in the last picture, even though it does not have the stripe to match it is much less dented. But you are right these tanks are very hard to come by.

Keep at it. These are probably the best pit and race track bikes ever. I took mine to Laguna Seca the other year and it was awesome to use to cruise around back and forth around the whole area. Anything larger than one of these is miserable to maneuver around the tight areas and anything smaller is a kiddy bike.

And I don't see ANY corrosion on your bike! You got a good one for sure.

That sounds awesome, I would love to do that some day.

[jfp350]

I got new fork seals for mine too. These things would benefit greatly from new oil and seals. I can't wait to do mine and put up some pictures and stuff about it.

I am debating weather to get the full rebuild kit or just the seals and boots. The shock rebuild kit I used on my ct70 with the same front suspension included stiffer springs, the seals, caps, and boots all for around $25.

definitely keep your build updated with pics :)

[hahnda]

These bikes do not have a magneto. You need to have a charged battery in the circuit to get spark. All the other components just keep that battery charged.

[Smithers]

Just to help everyone out who is questioning this topic of whether old Honda motorcycles need to have batteries in them to run:

ALL OLD HONDA MOTORCYCLES WILL NOT RUN WITHOUT A CHARGED BATTERY IN THEM

Now this is a rumor I have heard about when you try and run one of these older Hondas with a wrong 12V battery (when it calls for a 6V) or run it without a battery: I have read that you risk blowing out or damaging the rectifier. I haven't EVER had a malfunctioning rectifier in my life in all my motorcycle adventures (many many many different motorcycles) so I can't see the logic in this. I even worked on a Honda Express 1980 scooter that was acquired from a monkey that tried to run it with a 12V battery. I just put the proper battery in it and rebuilt the carb and it runs great so it wasn't damaged from the wrong battery.

The CL70 6V battery is very very small and has virtually no reserve power in it and must be on a Battery Tender or equivalent device to stay charged. It might stay charged enough to start after sitting for a month MAYBE but that's about it. I have had a couple brand new ones in mine over the years and they poop out quick. Here is a good example for anyone to try on this model. When you go to your CL70 go hold the horn down and see how long it goes until it slowly dies.... yeah like one minute MAYBE haha fun little bikes. I actually hard wired all the connectors in the wiring harness and the blinkers actually work now and all the lights are much brighter and the horn works 3x as loud.

[hahnda]

If you need a battery I would look into something like this.

http://search.ebay.com/270535582829

They last at least 2 to 3 times longer than a regular acid battery. I have left them in little bikes and scooters over the winter and still have them start in the spring with no battery tender. You might even be able to find them local.

Smithers - I have a 79 Express and run it with no battery. That little scooter used the headlight as a regulator and with no battery it blew right away. It's always funny to see if someone can figure out how to start the Express.

[jfp350]

These bikes do not have a magneto. You need to have a charged battery in the circuit to get spark. All the other components just keep that battery charged.

it has a magneto, two magnetic coils under the flywheel one is for ignition the other is for lighting.

I have a sealed battery that looks like that from the previous owner, am going to buy a new one just in case

[Smithers]

hahnda I wasn't inferring the Express wouldn't start without a battery although it might sound like I did sorry. Plus the monkey mechanic did all sorts of weird things to the Express so the battery wasn't the main problem. :D 1980 isn't old in motorcycle years to us. On another note in relation to motorcycle vintage I asked the California DMV how old a motorcycle would have to be to get a "historic vehicle" license plate and they said 1945 or something in the 40's. I was shocked because cars don't have to be that old to have those plates! At least I have seen newer cars with historic plates on them >:-|

[hahnda]

Didn't say that you said that. Just talking about my junky express since you brought yours up. Mine is used as a yard bike for my wife. Also use it as a swap meet cruiser.

In WI we can get Collector plates for vehicles 20+ years old. Bikes are $24 for as long as you want or until you sell it.

[Smithers]

Hehe no problem. These Express bikes are hot rides indeed. They truly teach you to be afraid of traffic and small dogs that might bite. I'M EXTREMELY jealous of your ability to get a Collector plate and especially your vehicle fees!!! Don't rub it in! :`(

I think the Honda CL70 would have a slight advantage over the Honda Express scooter though. I need to get a video of the CL sometime.
oG2gIganWYw

[jfp350]

well thanks, I have an idea of where to start now, I will let you know what I find out and if I get it running. get a video of the cl70 up there are no good ones around.

[Smithers]

You'll be able to push the kick starter with your hand to fire it up. I'm sure you'll get it figured. I'm going to look for some heavier springs for my CL70 as well. It's a wheelie machine. :) I took the kickstand off of it when I was in high school because I used to ride it all in the hills and the mountains for days. Me and some friends had 70's and 50's we tricked out and rode all over the coast as we could just pick them up if we came to a fence, hehe. So suffice to say the kickstand is long gone... I need to fine another one so it you see one available let me know.

[jfp350]

You'll be able to push the kick starter with your hand to fire it up. I'm sure you'll get it figured. I'm going to look for some heavier springs for my CL70 as well. It's a wheelie machine. :) I took the kickstand off of it when I was in high school because I used to ride it all in the hills and the mountains for days. Me and some friends had 70's and 50's we tricked out and rode all over the coast as we could just pick them up if we came to a fence, hehe. So suffice to say the kickstand is long gone... I need to fine another one so it you see one available let me know.

I know of a few cl70s for sale, one complete pretty solid project for $350. Unfortunately none of the ones I know of are close to you. When project ones pop up for sale here on craigslist they normally disappear in a matter of days. Besides the cl70 I also own a mostly restored 74 Honda ct70 in candy Riviera blue, and a 1970 Suzuki mt50 which my dad bought new and I partially restored.

for heavier springs I went with this rebuild kit on my ct70 which has the same forks as the cl70. I do mostly street riding with the ct70 and this setup is at least 30% stiffer and works out great. you can also adjust the firmness by the amount of fork oil you add. I am considering using another one of the kits for this bike but might just cheap out and get just seals and rubbers http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CT70-TRAIL70-FRONT-FORK-REBUILD-KIT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19ba1c4aa9QQitemZ11 0496598697QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#h t_500wt_956 pretty good deal considering the springs alone normally cost $30.

[Smithers]

Perfect. I've seen those kits on eBay before but I didn't know they would work for the CL as well. They must have dropped the price a little too from what I remember. I'll definitely have to get one of those kits and try it out. I've bought from that seller before with good results. I just wish the foot rubber that I bought from them would last longer. It's already started to crack in less than one year. Oh well the price was right but I would love to have some original Honda ones that last much longer.

[Spokes]

Have you guys tried www.hondaminitrail.com? Gobbs of cool parts for the ct70. I don't know how many parts the ct70 fit the cl70, but they have some neat stuff. For batteries I go to Batteries Plus. These guys had the exact fit replacement 6 volt battery for my 1965 CA95...on the shelf... They have every battery for anything. When my battery sat too long, it would not take a charge...These guys revived the battery.

[jfp350]

Perfect. I've seen those kits on eBay before but I didn't know they would work for the CL as well. They must have dropped the price a little too from what I remember. I'll definitely have to get one of those kits and try it out. I've bought from that seller before with good results. I just wish the foot rubber that I bought from them would last longer. It's already started to crack in less than one year. Oh well the price was right but I would love to have some original Honda ones that last much longer.

Perfect timing!! glad I checked this, I was just about to order the foot rubber since mine is missing both.save me the trouble, I guess I will shoot for the Honda OEM instead.

also FYI to save even more money on the kits they put them up for auction every so often for even cheaper than the BIN.

I have bought from the seller a few times and surprisingly they have bought from me lol. no problems.

[jfp350]

Have you guys tried www.hondaminitrail.com? Gobbs of cool parts for the ct70. I don't know how many parts the ct70 fit the cl70, but they have some neat stuff. For batteries I go to Batteries Plus. These guys had the exact fit replacement 6 volt battery for my 1965 CA95...on the shelf... They have every battery for anything. When my battery sat too long, it would not take a charge...These guys revived the battery.

yeah, they do lots of nice reproduction parts. the bars for my 74 ct70 were produced by them. They are missing out though by not having an online checkout system I like using my paypal for a secure payment. this is my favorite store http://dratv.com/ even have a cl70 section.

[jfp350]

installed new points, set the gap
Installed new battery

STILL NO SPARK!!!!

[hahnda]

Ok, so when you turn on the ignition do any lights come on? Is there a main fuse in the circuit?

[jfp350]

main fuse is bypassed, no lights turn on

my next guess is the condensor/coil, which is convieniently located betweet the motor and frame so that I have to drop the motor to get it out

[hahnda]

I'd make sure you have power before you look at the coils. A light somewhere should turn on. I would fix that fuse bypass,

[jfp350]

no lights turn on on my ct70 and it has power and runs, I think the lights are blown on the cl70 so even if it had power they would not turn on. I dropped the motor out today to gain acess to the ignition coil and condensor and swap them out...then I plan to take another harness and rewire it by the diagram and give it another try. no sense fixing the fuse bypass yet, a fuse is just another thing to get in the way and cause a problem now. later on it will be a good thing to have.

[jfp350]

a bit of an update, I tested my ignition coil and it was bad, I replaced it with one I tesed that sparked. I had high hopes that I had found and fixed the problem but after wiring it all up it would not spark. I am now looking at corroded wire terminals as a source of the problem.

process of elemination starting with stuff that is known to be good

new battery
bypassed fuse (fuse cant be the problem)
new points gapped correctly
ignition coil is tested and sparks when directly hooked to the battery.
new plug

what could still be wrong-

harness (corroded terminals)
rectifier (I have 2 not sure how to test either)
stator coils (no clue how to test)
ignition switch (planning to bypass it)

I also noticed the (green) ground wire for the bike running to a very rusty ground point on the tailight bracket. could this cause no spark?

[deermagnet]

Any luck getting the light's to work?

I acquired a 72, runs and the horn works, but none of the lights work.

The previous owner tried messing with the wireing, but must have given up. So i'm going to rewire it myself. Wish me luck!

[jfp350]

no lights yet. have not gotten a chance to work on her in a while. I picked up a new NOS OEM harness for the bike for $50 shipped on ebay and I hope that fixes most of it.

good luck on your build, post up pics!

[deermagnet]

Any luck with your rewiring job?

I was also lucky enough to get an oem wiring harness. Made my life much simpler, everthing is working now! wooohoo!

Hope yours is going well, any progress?

[jfp350]

Congrats

Yep, I did just about the same thing. I also found a good deal on an OEM harness and went to work reconnecting and testing with the voltmeter. The end result for me among the possible faulty wiring was a blown ignition coil. once replaced the bike roared to life...hits 50mph effortlessly. Carburetor went shortly after and had to replace that, but it runs so much smoother with a new carb it was a worthy investment and cheap reliability upgrade. Unfortunately
beyond the engine running and bike driving nice...nothing else works. I have a feeling almost all the bulbs are blown. Right now i am tackling putting on new spokes and tires. I also cleaned the rust out of the tank, installed new hose, a new petcock and inline filter.

[deermagnet]

Sounds like you have been busy!
I know what you mean about the bulbs, i couldn't get my blinkers to flash until i replaced the indicator bulb in the speedo. One faulty bulb in the link screws up the whole operation. Reminds me of the old christmas light's, where one bulb would burnout and the whole strand would go out. Leaving you to find the blown bulb among the many.

[Smithers]

Any luck getting the wheels back on the bike? I'm curious which tires you chose. I need tires on mine before I start using it again. If you could get a picture or two that would be greatly appreciated.

[jfp350]

yep got the front wheel back together with the new rubber. unfortunately the rear was so rusty I had to cut the spokes out (all at once on accident) and have no clue where to start with replacing those. on the front I replaced the spokes 1 by 1.

here is a picture of completed front wheel and tire

http://img704.imageshack.us/i/1040076.jpg/

image attach inst working here is the link http://img704.imageshack.us/i/1040076.jpg/

got them from motorcycle superstore with a coupon....very cheap http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/5/32/404/11893/ITEM/Michelin-Gazelle-M62-Moped-Tire.aspx

[Smithers]

Ah very nice! I'm going to have to order a pair of these for mine. My old tires aren't very round anymore. What a deal too.

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/1638/1040076.jpg

[deermagnet]

I went through the exact same mess with mine, previous owner hooked up 12v battery etc... I had to replace the condensor and coil. I also had to replace EVERY bulb on the bike because they were all blown. I also had to replace the signal stat. Just a heads up...All your bulbs have to be good in order for the lights to function correctly, such as the blinkers actually blinking. That includes the indicator bulbs as well. I also purchased the michelin gazel tires and they are great tires, especially for the price.
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/braintanner/Firstpicdownload037.jpg

[Smithers]

Heh yeah it's amazing how people just assume everything on wheels is 12V!! These batteries on these bikes are SUPER small. I'm getting a little black led acid battery next time. I can't wait to put new tires on my old CL.

[will1972rupp1]

hi the front wheel looks great... can you please post a link for new spokes for my cl70.. thanks will