My build questions

[Roberd42]

I noticed I hijacked Michaels thread so I have created one for my questions. I try to play nice to etiquettes. I hooked the electrical up and began troubleshooting today. The ignition seems to operate correctly, activating the correct circuits on the different settings. The speedo backlight, tail light, stop switch, and starter all work correctly.

The left hand side is dead. No horn, no high beam. The low beam (red) has 6v to it in II and III all the time. I don't think its supposed to in II. Horn itself tested good. The horn button works if you check continuity between the housing and the end of the wire. No resistance on the horn wire in the harness indicating a ground. I'm afraid to apply power to it as its black and I don't want to fry anything. Which brings me to the neutral switch.

The neutral switch is dead also. Bike is in neutral, switch is making good contact, and there is no resistance to the light bulb, in neutral indicating a solid ground. The black side goes to ground off the ignition with the white band. How does the switch get power if green/red stripe goes to ground at the switch and one the other side black grounds at the ignition? There must be something I'm missing.

[Spokes]

No Longer Available

[Roberd42]

Oh yeah! Sylvania isn't far at all. Maybe we can meet up one day, if I ever get this thing going. I've some other rides - a ural, a kawa 750 turbo, and a couple rd400s. This old honda is backward in some places compared to what I've dealt with. Ill trouble shoot some more in the switch. Does the switch housing have to have ground to the frame through the bars? My bars are painted and don't ground to the frame from what I can tell. The starter button works though and it's on the bars?

I took my high low beam switch apart and cleaned it. I can't feel a detent between high/low. There's a spring in there with a check ball but it doesn't seem to do its job of making a detent. Is there something else that goes in there? You wouldn't happen to have an old high/low switch or the guts would you? It just doesn't feel right.

[Spokes]

No Longer Available

[Roberd42]

Chip, seems like you and Sam are the only ones putting input to the threads lol. I put new brake pads on the rear and now it works correctly. However I'm still battling with the pedal. I changed to another return spring I had, it didn't help. There's a crease in my pedal about a third of the way from the pivot. I think the PO may have inadvertently bent it in moving. It had some other dents and dings so this is what I'm thinking. I may stick it in a vice and try to bend it downward.

Also, the torque specs only say 5-6 ftlb on the exhaust flange nuts. I thought the flanges sat flush against the cylinder. Theres supposed to be a gap I suppose?

[Spokes]

No Longer Available

[Roberd42]

Great! If you will send the pedal, I don't need the rod necessarily to save on shipping. It may be the wrong pedal. Good to see I wasn't nuts trying to get that switch to work. I tried soldering the horn wire back on but I'm not very talented at that stuff. Thanks again so much for looking at it.

I consistently see a few people viewing the forum so I try to post my issues for everyone's benefit also. When I read old posts I see many that know their stuff!

[Sam Green]

Just to let you know why I've not chipped in on this one (no pun intended CHIP hahaha) electrics is not my thing as none of my Benly's are road bikes and I wouldn't want to give out info that I'm not sure of.:D

Sam.:)

[Roberd42]

Well, for everyone's benefit I'll post an update here. I'm sure Chip will see it :). Chip I put your reworked switch on today and it works great! I now have a horn and a high and low beam! The brake pedal was indeed the wrong one. Picture of the two below. The black one is mine, the chrome is correct. Maybe mine is from a 160? Not sure.

Now the last thing to get working is the neutral light. It doesn't come on in neutral. The cam is adjusted correctly in the motor and shows continuity in neutral and loses continuity in any other gear. It blinks when I switch from pos III to II. Basically it blinks when I switch off. It also lights dimly when the horn is pressed. Not sure what's going on here. Any idea chip? The wires are plugged correctly green with red stripe to light, black with white pipe on the end to black with white pipe from the switch.

[Roberd42]

Pedals

[Spokes]

No Longer Available

[Roberd42]

I feel dumb again. I swapped the wires on the neutral light and it works fine. I rewired it with a hard wired led and assumed the black was negative. Wrong. I guess power comes from the ignition (black) and grounds via the green wire to the case at the neutral switch. All that is well now. Everything is progressing nicely. I did get it to crank yesterday with a homemade run bottle. I'm waiting on my tank to come back from the welder to fix the hole then it's off to the painter.

[Spokes]

No Longer Available

[Roberd42]

A couple more questions. Do I have the taillight wires routed correctly? The come out of the lower grommet, behind the battery, and into the opening. It looks like a pinch spot there behind the battery, maybe not. Both my wires are red (I assume they were replaced by the PO).

Just for my knowledge, what's the part number for the upper frame grommet that the positive battery wire goes through the frame? I can't find it in the parts diagram.

Where does the wiring harness bell clamp bolt to the inside of the frame? Or does it slide over something?

Is there a rearward rubber on the left muffler that the center stand bumps against? If so what's the part no? I've got one for the kickstand but the center stand is just a plate so it's hard to grip with boots on.

[Roberd42]

Wiring

[Spokes]

No Longer Available

[frappy]

I routed my brake light wires through the larger oblong grommet where the positive battery cable exits to attach to the battery. I too can't find the part number for that "mystery" oblong rubber battery cable grommet. It shows on the drawing, but there is no diagram/part number associated with it.

The side stand rubber bumper presses through a hole in a bracket on the stock muffler and is p/n 50543-200-000 (early) & 50543-212-000 (late). I think both parts are identical, even though the numbers are different.

The center stand has a big grommet-like rubber bumper that slides over the stand "arm" to a position where it will bump against the muffler; it is p/n 50424-200-010 (early) & 50424-212-000 (late). Again, I think both parts are identical, even though the numbers are different

[Roberd42]

Ohhh, ok, I see the rubber is on the center stand. That sucker is hard to get my toe on.

I may run it the wires through The back fender like spokes with a Napa grommet.

[Roberd42]

my points plate is missing the adjustment screw for the the points that the manual says to screw in and out to adjust. There are no threads in there. I just loosened the large screw and put a feeler in there for the right gap at the high point on the cam, then tightened it down. Is this ok? I don't think I need that screw, do I?

[Spokes]

There is supposed to be a screw with a small cam in that hole. You would loosen the points and turn the (missing) screw to open or close the points.

I don't think you need the screw now, but if the points go out of adjustment quickly, I would replace the points plate. Good used point plates are available on eBay.

[Roberd42]

Ah, I see. I will look into that if it gives me problems.

[Roberd42]

I also found this plate in my parts box. On ebay it says it's a starter gear hold down. I dont see it on the diagram. Where does it go?

Also my front shocks have a bunch of squeaking going on. I greased the lower links but it sounds like it's coming from the springs. Is this normal and is there anyway to lubricate or stop the noise?

[Spokes]

The bracket mounts to the engine case outside of the starter gear, behind the flywheel.

Others may chime in regarding the squeaking. I would spray WD40 on all of the contact points. Being that the spring assembly is 55 years old, you may consider living with the squeak or take a chance and buy another set off of eBay from a newer model.

[frappy]

The front shocks on my '64 squeak too. If I were restoring mine for sale, it would bother me. I'm assuming the squeaks are coming from up near the top shock mount, but other than that, I can't offer any "sound" advice. As it stands, the squeaky front shocks on my '64 is a comforting audible reminder that I'm riding a 51 y/o motorcycle.

[Roberd42]

Yeah, it's not a big deal, but I'm going to pull them and clean and oil them up. I just was making sure I wasn't missing something in lubrication.

On the rear brake stay, there's a spring on the swing arm side. The stay has a round doubler on both ends, opposite sides. I'm not sure what the spring does as my stay doesn't slide over the shaft. Maybe one hole/side is larger than the other. Which way does the stay go? Doubler toward the spring I'm guessing and away from the brake cover.

[Spokes]

The stay should have one hole larger than the other. The large hole slips over the swing arm post. The stay should fit only one way comfortably.

[Roberd42]

I'll pop it off and check its orientation. PO had plenty assembled improperly.

[Roberd42]

Chip, I bought w spare fuel tank off of ebay listed for a ca95. Primarily for the emblems in decent shape. It has the 150 emblems, the late style knee pad and side cover. But it's like a tank from your post a couple years ago. It only has the rear two mounting points and a spots for slide on bushings in the front frame channel. You said you thought it was from a CS92.

I found these bushings on eBay for a CA110/200. I'm going to measure some but it seems odd for a tank to have the correct side covers and badges, yet different mounting. Possibly C95s had this type of tank that mounted on these bushings in the center hole of the frame? Michael Clark mentioned to me that his mounted with "early" mounts. Any ideas about what years or models this was done?

[Roberd42]

The front mounts are for 30mm OD bushings. The covers have the "T" under the emblem upside down like that CA160 side covers. More confused now as to what it came off of. The petcock is on the left side.

[Spokes]

Sam may know more about the tank mount configuration on the C95 & CA95. It seems to me there were different Benly models produced for different countries. To make matters more interesting is many guys returning to the USA from Viet Nam brought back Honda's as well.

Does your frame have 2 or 4 mounting points on your frame? I was under the impression that the early CA95 (1959-1963) frames had 2 rear mounts and two slide in mounts forward.

I urge you to check the serial number of the frame. You will find it on the incline plane of the frame below the left cover. The 1st number after CA95- is the year. Technically yours should read "0" if it is a 1960.

The CA160 & CA95 tank side covers are interchangeable. The main difference is the CA160 emblems are much larger than the CA95 emblems.

Finally, as much as I hate to say this but, there are very few people who know these bikes as well as the forum members here. Most eBayers mix and match parts. So someone finds an old CA95 tank, adds a CA160 side panel, puts a generic emblem on the side and sells the package as fitting years 1959-1965.

I hope that's not the case here. The petcock location is correct.

[Roberd42]

My frame is a 1964. The tank that came on the bike (which is fine except for a hole in welding up) and the frame has the four mounting points. It has the petcock on the left also. The panels have the T on top and fit the same emblems as the ebay tank panel with the T on the bottom.

The ebay tank has original 150 emblems. The knee pads and that look exactly like my late ones with the T on top. It has the slide mounts up front though. I wonder if pegs stuck out of the frame on those models to put the slide bushings on or if they plugged into the frame holes?

Unfortunately, Sam will be out of the loop. He had a seizure recently in relation to his accident injuries. He said the doctors told him to stay off the electronics/computers as it may be exacerbating his injury. :(

[Spokes]

No Longer Available

[Roberd42]

That's a sexy 160 chip! That's a good idea to save a tank and repurpose it. I'm going to clean this tank up to sell it to recoup part of what I spent on it. I'd like to be able to list what it was used on. It was $70 shipped. I see the emblems and petcocks alone go for that much. This tank came with the side panels, knee pads, emblems, and petcock in rebuildable condition.

Sam posted that on facebook earlier this week and said he would be taking an Internet hiatus and wasn't intending on being rude by not being active.

[Spokes]

No Longer Available

[frappy]

Regarding the tank mounts: I have two '64 CA95s. The first '64 with VIN ending in 00422 has two rear bottom mounts and slots in the front to slide onto 30mm OD bushings on the front frame channel. The second '64 with later VIN ending in 05112 has the four bottom mounts. I have pics of two all original '63s that have the two bottom mounts. A good friend has a '65 which has the four bottom mounts. Another good friend had a '62 with the four bottom mounts. My '60 and '61 both have the 4 bottom mounts.

All eight bikes described above are to the best of my knowledge original unmolested bikes. Based on my research, I believe that Honda introduced the "two bottom mount" tanks when they came out with the new tank design in '63, and then went back to the "four bottom mount" tanks early during the '64 model run. I do not know why they went back to the early design with 4 bottom mounts, as the '63 / '64 front-bushing design would seem to have been superior and is still being used on motorcycles today.

[Roberd42]

Frappy, were the frames different to hold the front slide bushings? Or did the bushings insert into one of the frame holes? Did the slide on frames still have the front mount brackets? I'd like to see a picture of that style frame if you get a chance. The ca200 and 110 had a similar set up but they had frame pegs that the bushings pressed onto. I would think the 95 frames would all be the same.

[frappy]

Roberd, Finally got around to partially removing my tank and snapping a pic of the '63/'64 slide-on tank mount on my low-VIN '64. As you can see, it has the "pegs" for the rubber bushings and the other style front mount brackets are not there.
Regards - Dane

[Roberd42]

Thanks Dane! I can't believe they made frames without the pegs, then with but without the bracket, then back to the original style. Seems like a nightmare for tooling/stamping, parts, ect. I was wondering if there were provisions in my frame for that set up that I could just weld the pegs to. Looks like it would be a lot of work. Interesting none the less!

[Roberd42]

Well, I finally found a reasonable paint shop to work on my tank and front fender. Next I will fix up the LED headlight ( I think im going to use a grommet from harbor freight and squeeze it in there flush as possible. Hopefully then I have room for the heatsink )

The tank repair came out horribly. I brazed on it and the braze kept cooling and cracking again. Ended up a 2 inch crack having a 4x4 bronze patch which disfigured the interior channel of the tank slightly. Turns out, Spokes, that I may need those two spare mounts. I may swap the other tank to the post style like you did on the 160. Depends how it looks on the bike after paint.

Another issue I have is on the front fork. I found my fork squeak. Turns out there was a metal grommet missing up top of the left (Squeaky) fork spring. I sourced a replacement and tried to install the arm into the fork tube. Someone left out the grommet, then overtorqued the fender bolt. It squeezed the tube just slightly so that now, the arm wont line up or fit with the holes without the grommet removed. I can get a bolt up in there with a magnet, thinking of using some kind of puller to open the tube back up slightly. Any ideas there?

I could always run it without the grommet and deal with the squeak, or replace the front forks (more $ on paint and parts)...

[Roberd42]

Also, I pulled the fork hole plugs to replace them. Every set on ebay has a post for a hole that is larger than mine. Maybe i have an early fork ? Anyone else notice smaller or larger holes? I sliced up the plug post with an xacto knife and tapped them in with a rubber hammer. I noticed some metal plugs on ebay for an early ca95. I may ask him to measure the post size.

[Roberd42]

Well I got her on the road the past few days. Finally got items back from paint (tank side covers need to be repainted, I swear it's hard to find a good paint shop). Thanks to spokes for the headlight lens, put it in today and it fits great, perfect.

I have a front end issue. It has a wobble feeling, like the front wheel is walking. Went back and torqued the front axle and suspension components to book numbers. It helped but still feels squirrelly almost like a speed wobble that gets better with more speed. The tires I have are too small, scooter tires of some sort, i can't remember the size at the moment. I'm not sure if that's the issue. It has all of the components on the front wheel, collars and whatnot according to the diagram. Anyone dealt with this before?

[Spokes]

No Longer Available

[Roberd42]

The tires are 2.50 not 3.00. I think that may be the culprit. I cleaned the forks and fessed new sleeves in the uppers with a rubber hammer. All felt tight. I'm also going to check the steering head torque. The bearings spun smoothly and there wasn't any play. The aspect ratio on the 2.50 tires looks goofy and I think the tires almost look pointed on the wider rim. I think it's messing with the geometry some way. It indicates over 60 mph and is spinning out super high rpm with the smaller tires. I'm going to get the right size tires mounted and balanced and see if that fixes it.

[frappy]

What Spokes suggested are great recommendations. It seems that you already torqued all of the fasteners in the front end, correct? In addition, I was going to suggest you check the steering head torque/free-play and ask you about the condition of the all the shock pivots/bushing, but it sounds like you've already gone (or will be going) there. Grabbing at straws here, but are all your spokes tight? Only other things I can think of that could be causing the issue you describe is if the tire pressure is off or if the forks are bent. I can't comment on the tire-sizing issue, but if the tire has a straight-grooved tread (i.e., treads that run in a straight line around the circumference of the tire, that can cause a wandering type feeling, especially on grooved pavement surfaces. Keep us posted!

[Spokes]

No Longer Available

[Roberd42]

Thanks guys for your input. Will do!